Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

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Should we add a Crossbow section to the forum?

Poll ended at Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:31 pm

YES - We need one
12
67%
NO - Leave all crossbow talk in the general Archery section
6
33%
 
Total votes : 18

Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Ace » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:02 pm

11pointer wrote:as of right now the federation voted and 55 or older only is their stance as per the meeting...not hear say FACT...notice the as of right now because we know what the council wants so minds will probably be swayed...sad isnt it


Fred the spokesman for the Federation Clearly stated, they'd support the F&G Council on whatever they decided......

NOTHING "sad" about that IMO

BTW, it's NOT "what the Council wants" it IS what the NJ Hunters (including bow hunters) have Stated THEY want......

Like I said it's all in black and white .......
The mere state of having an opinion does not entitle one to respect. That opinion must also be grounded in logic and facts before it reaches that state."
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Ace » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:01 am

Sam should be Very ashamed of his last post "over there", not so long ago HE mentioned the Archery training center and stated the two were NOT connected IN ANY WAY (crossbow inclusion and the training center)........now he seems to be saying "otherwise", SURE seems to be "much double speak" coming from "certain folks within a certain organization" (to me at least).....

BTW what does Easton being a "major player" in the training center have to do with full crossbow inclusion??

Does ANYONE "really think" they need NJ to go full inclusion for THEIR "bottom line"??????

Making absurd claims is quite easy to do, but when one has to back them up with some facts, that's when it gets "interesting"...... :D

BTW anyone believing the F&G survey "meant nothing" try asking the NJ Hunters who took THEIR time filling them out about THAT BS!

So Sam "pat yourself some more on the back".........Glad to know however that YOU still "miss me" over there, I notice you couldn't help mentioning me, knowing I can't refute you "over there" you must be very proud of yourself.........
The mere state of having an opinion does not entitle one to respect. That opinion must also be grounded in logic and facts before it reaches that state."
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Dubs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:34 am

I always knew there was some kind of agenda behind this crossbow thing. The council of NJF&G game should be ashamed of themselves for the way they acted yesterday. It was so transparent. What is a real shame is they put their pockets before the hunters and animals in this state. I will have no faith in anything the F&G put out. NJ Corruption made it's way to F&G if you ask me. :x :x :x :x :x
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Ace » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:43 pm

Dubs wrote:I always knew there was some kind of agenda behind this crossbow thing. The council of NJF&G game should be ashamed of themselves for the way they acted yesterday. It was so transparent. What is a real shame is they put their pockets before the hunters and animals in this state. I will have no faith in anything the F&G put out. NJ Corruption made it's way to F&G if you ask me. :x :x :x :x :x


How "exactly" (in Your OPINION) are they putting anything ahead of the animals or NJ Hunters???

Did you not hear the councilwoman say SHE did her own survey at a bow show and the Vast Majority were FOR Full Inclusion? (yet another survey proving what most want).....

Now WE have (at least) Three different surveys showing MAJORITY SUPPORT for full inclusion..........so NO point "in acting like" anyone is getting "shafted" (pun intended)....

As for the animals, AGAIN with NJ BOW Hunters having > 51% success rates (about double the average of the Eastern US) you're going to have a VERY hard time "selling" that load......

With all due respect

YOU "talk about" things being "just like six day" after full inclusion but can't back up that claim (scare tactic) with one shred of data from anywhere......period...

THAT is the whole problem with your side's stance (and has been all along), WE have the real hard data ALL supporting our claims.......we Can prove the truth, and how it's not only a good thing for ALL but in fact a "win-win" for ALL INVOLVED

FACT #1
Joe Mills seemed totally unprepared and didn't give much of a talk(or should I say "reading")...OR ANY good or valid reasons to NOT include crossbows, in FACT he couldn't even answer the questions the Council asked HIM about HIS PRESENTATION!!

FACT #2
NO one else from the ANTI CrossBOW side even bothered to speak......pretty hard to convince the F&G Council of anything when you have NOTHING on your side to support your stance.......and NO one willing to voice their reason(s) for opposition .........F&G Council can Not consider what they don't hear, and it's absurd to expect them to do so.....(IMO)

THAT is the real WHOLE TRUTH of what "went down", NO "corruption", FACT is there were NO good or valid reasons given to NOT include crossbows in all bow seasons for everyone.....period

TRY to "blame others", (yet YOU didn't even speak out for what YOU desire).......make bogus accusations and allegations on the F&G Council, but KNOW this, many were there and witnessed the TRUTH....

IF one "sets out" to try to make their case, they should do so in a PROFESSIONAL Manner (which Joe Mills did NOT accomplish) should NOT insult those making the rules (which HE DID when he stated he was wasting HIS time ---(what about THEIR time???)
Should be FULLY prepared to "back up" his claims (which he WAS NOT prepared to do at All) ....

EVERY ONE of you folks on the "other side" (of this one issue) were FULLY AWARE that WE had given the the REAL facts and Hard DATA , for them to consider.......

WE did NOT try to "hide this" (even though some would say this is chess and not checkers) YOUR side was not "blindsided" or unaware of that fact At All.....

That FACT being well known Many(Most?) would expect the PRESIDENT of UBNJ to be fully prepared and professional, NO question that he was neither......

NO.......it's NOT TRUE, that "their minds were made up" , but it may very well be true NOW.......

"I" agree for QUALITY bucks NJ needs to make some serious changes (and IMO the sooner the better) THAT isn't going to happen though because those WHO COULD help get it done are too busy fighting THEIR OWN KIND, Calling names and insulting THE VERY FOLKS who make those very changes.........(the NJ F&G Council)......OTHER Really Important issues WILL arise in the very near future.........TRY to keep that fact in mind for YOUR OWN GOOD....

On another note:

Crossbows have NOTHING to do with ANY Olympic Training Centers PERIOD....(or whether the Eastern one ends up in NJ)..........TOTALLY unrelated issue (as MOST everything that some "try to use" against full inclusion, ) yet one more "smokescreen" MORE "Smoke and mirrors" to rile folks up with NO proof, not one shred of evidence EVER to support these fictitious claims.....

Crossbows (and compounds also) ARE NOT ALLOWED in the Olympics.......PERIOD

So the Totally False allegations ANY of this is "because of that" or anything similar have NOT been PROVEN because they CAN'T be proven.........simple as that!
The mere state of having an opinion does not entitle one to respect. That opinion must also be grounded in logic and facts before it reaches that state."
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Dubs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:29 pm

Ace to be truthfully honest. I just skimmed over your post and what it comes down to is. Whatever Joe did or didn't do didn't matter. Whatever I said or didn't say didn't matter. The minds were made up. Period. i was there you were not. The unprofessionalism of our very own F&G council on this issue was horrendous. If I could vote the out right now i would. I don't thnk they are worthy to hold such a title. And for Paul or Kathy not to own up to this is ridiculous, and says alot about their character and how they feel people should be treated.

THUMBS DOWN to NJ F&G council I hope it not long before hunter start to realize what we have running our outdoor life in NJ. I highly recommend every hunter to go to the September 9th meeting and see for yourself. Let's see if tthey change their tones.
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Ace » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:00 pm

Dubs , no "I" wasn't there, doesn't matter at all....... I KNOW exactly what transpired

You talk about "Professionalism" in regards to the F&G Council but what about the UBNJ President?

Did Joe Mills act in a professional manner OR NOT?

Did he in fact insult the F&G Council OR NOT?

Did Joe Mills answer all the questions about HIS Presentation OR NOT?

Don't try to say "it doesn't matter", it most certainly does.....!!

F&G gave UBNJ a chance to address them........that deserves respect and professional attitude........period

Often folks get treated with exactly the same respect THEY "dish out".....in fact MOST times that is how it goes in the Real world (professional world too)
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby 11pointer » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:46 pm

i will be one for changing the council ...im will never attend rally's to support them .if another bill is written for the changing of the council in anyway i will support it no matter who writes it FACT
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby Dubs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:59 pm

Like I said before... Cherish this bowseason, NJ Hunters, cause it will be the last one you know and love. NJ F&G and the ProCrossbow Coalition made sure of this. Remember this when the next bill comes up to get them out.
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby 11pointer » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:36 pm

frig limits i dont give a s*** what they do now..yesterday the council made it worse for themselves as far as any kind of decent relationship with the UBNJ and many bowhunters in this state..remember larry said dont burn bridges well jim its burning and i doubt there is any water nearby...dont listen to your chronie who was at the meeting you were NOT there you DONT know WHAT was said or WHAT was asked and that my friend is a FACT
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Re: Crossbow Section (OFFICIAL FORUM POLL - VOTE HERE)

Postby NJMark » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:17 pm

11pointer wrote:frig limits i dont give a s*** what they do now..yesterday the council made it worse for themselves as far as any kind of decent relationship with the UBNJ and many bowhunters in this state..


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